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Re: Eclipse slow ?
> I'd rather hoped we'd all gone beyond the IDE wars> now - if anything has held Java back its that.
I think that the IDE wars has helped push Java ahead. Even with free, open source IDEs, there's still a spirit of competition that keeps one trying to better the other. And we, the consumers, are benefitting.
Re: SWT/Eclipse is open source, Swing/Netbeans is not
> Swing is not open source, therefore Netbeans is not> totally open source because it has proprietary
> dependencies.
NetBeans is Open Source.
Open Source is a method for developing software, not a religion.
Re: Why Eclipse Users are Moving to Netbeans
> > * Quick fix>
> Work on a module for this is started
>
> > * Code formatter that wrapped lines over 80
> > characters. Preferably allowing you to specify the
> > formatting rules
>
> See the nbdev at netbeans dot org list - a community member
> has a new version of the jalopy plugin that should
> show up in CVS and on the update center in a few
> days
>
> > * Warning of unused imports
>
> PMD plugin for the tasklist is back in business
:) good to see.
> > * Local history
>
> Don't know quite what you mean - view the undo
> buffer?
I mean like in Eclipse. Even between starting/shutting down of the application it keeps a local history of the versions of the file. Think of it like local CVS but it is automatic. It list different versions of a file and the date and time of the version.
> > * Type hierarchy
>
> Choose Inheritance Hierarchy on the combo box in the
> Navigator window
Cool. Yeah I see it is in 4.1 but not 4.0
> > * Call hierarchy
>
> Got a demo of this in IDEA the other day, already
> started, shouldn't be hard.
Can't wait.
> > * Incremental compiler
>
> Using Ant as *the* build system sort of precludes
> that, but I think what you want are the *benefits* of
> an incremental compiler, as opposed to an incremental
> compiler per-se.
True. One thing I have noticed it takes awhile for errors to show up.
The big difference is the plug-ins support and that war is over, unless...
The BIG difference between Eclipse and Netbeans is the amount of plug-ins that different companies and open source groups are creating for Eclipse.I think that the only way to fight that war is using the JSR 198: A Standard Extension API for Integrated Development Environments.
Because right now the option is creating different versions of the plugins for each IDE and most projects don't have the resources or the motivation for do that.
BUT if you only have to create ONE (or two an Eclipse and a JSR 198 one) plug in, the whole thing will change, I think.
The problem is that JSR 198 seams dead and in my opinion that means that Eclipse won the battle
Cheers
JD
Re: Why Eclipse Users are Moving to Netbeans
Hi TimI think a REALLY brilliant idea would be to have OpenOffice style word completion while typing. This would be a great productivity gain esp. for typing class and variable names.
Re: SWT/Eclipse is open source, Swing/Netbeans is not
> For one, I don't know anybody who actually fixes bugs> in the software they use which is open source.
I've added several features (Quick Assist's) in Eclipse. I could not do this, if Eclipse would not OS.
> So does it matter that the tools you use are OS? I
> don't think so, unless OS is some sort of religious
> thing.
This is not religion, this is just practice. You just go and add features that you want.
SWT/Swing/ GWT Designer - SWT/Swing/GWT GUI designer for Eclipse
Re: It is possible to Skin NetBeans 4.x
Cool - thanks for the info!Re: Eclipse slow ?
> 512MB of main ram. Its speed is (generally) perfectly> adequate. There are times when "swap out" can cause
> it to pause, but apart from that its pretty nippy.
You might want to try the KeepResident Plugin against that,
I talk about it here:
http://www.jroller.com/page/murphee/20050309
> As for "Eclipse getting slower" "Netbeans getting
> faster" - this tells me zilch.
The "Eclipse getting slower" is a Meme that some people try to put into the public mind. If you've been following the Javalobby frontpage posts, and some other blogs you'll see this slowly creeping in... then there are users that have spent days with Eclipse for 2 years (yours truly, for instance) that haven't noticed something like that, simply because it isn't there.
I also used Eclipse on Linux with GTK+... on a 600 Mhz Athlon with 256 MB... and it worked perfectly, I didn't see any problems (Mind you: I'm a guy that switched to vim a couple of years ago only to get realtime behaviour from my editor... which means my standars are somewhat high in that area).
Mind you: there's a reason why
> Jetbrains will be squashed - although there is plenty
> of scope for them to write Eclipse plugins
> the positive side is there will be less confusion in
> the marketplace.
Yes, I totally agree. Eclipse being offered for free has caused people to complain about that killing of the commercial competition... of course, that completely ignores the fact that this has created a whole new market for plugins for Eclipse. The Eclipse plugin system allows for very fine grained extensions to be plugged in, so ISVs can extend it in all kinds of ways. Another good idea are Eclipse distributions, that take Eclipse, evaluate lots of Plugins that are out there and then put together a usefule distribution. This means: you get a huge amount of plugins and all the functionality, but don't have to go out evaluating the plugins yourself (there is a free distro, and there is one that sells for ... I think 19.95, but I can't recall it's nama... if someone does, please reply here).
Of course... as soon as discussions as this starts, all kinds of hypocrites come creeping out of the undergrowth... like the people that complained about the fact that Eclipse is free. What is their argument? They say that this lures people into Eclipse... and once they're hooked, they need to pay for further plugins; so... Eclipse is free, but Websphere or the Rational Plugins aren't free.
Well... hang on... doesn't Sun *sell* Netbeans+some plugins
for good money (Sun Java Creator ain't free...).
The fact that ISVs can now build their software as plugins an sell it creates new markets, it employs new people, ...
How TF is this bad?
Oh well... no sense in arguing...
Re: Why Eclipse Users are Moving to Netbeans
Let's face it, different people work on different types of projects, program in different ways, and utilize/need different features. The fact that we have these discussions periodically is that we always have someone who sees things one way, doesn't see how anyone can see it any differently, and posts something from that viewpoint (reference: see politics, human race, etc.)For instance, when I do java stuff, I only do java code, no GUI's, no JSP's, no EJB's. Also, I rely heavily on CVS, and appreciate seamless integration of CVS. When I switched from Netbeans to Eclipse a couple of years ago, CVS support in Netbeans was terrible (i.e. practically unusable for me), and I didn't care about any GUI/JSP support in Netbeans. Eclipse offered great CVS support, was much faster than netbeans, and supported the writing of Java code very well. I am still very happy with Eclipse, and do not see much reason to test the waters with Netbeans again. However, someone who needs the features that are offered in Netbeans but not in Eclipse (at least not for free) will likely see things differently. Thats understandable and OK.
Re: Why Eclipse Users are Moving to Netbeans
I'm not sure I agree with your characterization of "most people". Our company has developed and deployed standalone swing applications under Linux for several years in the US and have had no issues with the keyboard handling. We are actively using Netbeans for development. Yes, the apps are being used in the US.I would say that the keyboard bug would be a problem for some or even many users, but certainly not most.
Re: The big difference is the plug-ins support and that war is over, unless
Another reason for the Eclipse succeed over many other environments is that it is not only a java tool. There are plugins for all kinds of things and languages. This means that Eclipse have evolved to something of a Emacs for the GUI era. This is something that makes it hard for other more or less pure java tools to compete.Re: Why Eclipse Users are Moving to Netbeans
This is exactly right. Netbeans is nicer than Eclipse in so many ways except the Java editor, which is the most important part to me!My top pet peeves are that the Netbeans editor doesn't have:
- quick fix
- globular expression in the goto class dialog
- a way to filter and quickly get to a method (eclipse ctrl+o)
- constant compilation
- "active" templates
The 4.x projects need some enhancements (filtering mostly).
But I've watched newbees using both Eclipse and Netbeans. They like Netbeans better by far; they aren't using these "advanced" java editor features and find Netbeans easier to understand than Eclipse.
My personal Eclipse pet peeve is that if I add it to the dock (OS X) I get two dock icons when it is running. Other than that, I'm now used to the Eclipse quirks and really like the Java features.
Re: The big difference is the plug-ins support and that war is over, unless
That is one of the only reasons that I still use eclipse occasionally. It's support for other languages besides Java. But it only takes the first freeze to annoy me enough to close it. That and eclipse is, just now, getting full JDK5 support while NB has had it for a while now. Maybe that is one motivator for people switching?Re: It is possible to Skin NetBeans 4.x
It is possible to Skin NetBeans 4.xprecisely because it is based on Swing.
-Alexis
Re: The big difference is the plug-ins support and that war is over, unless
Talking about multiple languages, there's hope with the new java.net "Coyote" project .-Alexis