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NetBeans 6: Matisse Updates
NetBeans 6 delivers great updates to the Matisse GUI builder. Spend a few minutes with Roman Strobl and get an expert briefing on what's new and what has changed. (sponsored)
Introduction to Groovy Part 3
In this, the third and final installation of Andres' Introduction to Groovy series, you learn about how Groovy handles variable numbers of arguments, named parameters, currying, and more about Groovy operators. Including, some new operators.
Easier Custom Components with Swing Fuse
Swing Fuse (actually just Fuse), is a framework designed to make it easier to create your own custom desktop components. In this article, Daniel Spiewak shows you how to get started and provides sample source code you can download.
Benchmark Analysis: Guice vs Spring
Willam Louth shows how he uses JXInsight Probes to investigate probable performance issues with code bases that he is not familiar with. He also highlights possible pitfalls in creating a benchmark, as well as in the analysis of results.
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Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
Eclipse looked "right" from Day 1 (and i donīt mean UI). And god was Eclipse 1.0 crappy compared to what we have today.Universities jumped onto the Eclipse train very early as well. Thereīs plenty of plugin projects worldwide developed in that context alone.
Eclipse is very good for teaching OO Java Programming īcause it gives you a decent source code editor for free. Modelling can be done via Together4E which Universities can get cheaply as a campus license.
What I love about Eclipse?
I donīt need no "out-of-the-box" product. I like Eclipseīs architecture and Iīm looking forward to their spike into the server realm (somewhere deep on the project Site their hints of an OSGI based server concept). I donīt need J2EE though (and no Mac performance) so maybe the lack in that area is not as important to me as to others.
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> Have to disagree with you there. 50 million> downloads, multiple awards, etc...
>
50 million *attempted* downloads across how many Eclipse release milestones?
> > ... NetBeans, because I don't need any plugins for
> > J2EE support
>
> NetBeans and Eclipse both use plug-ins for J2EE
> support so it's just a difference of packaging. You
> can get several free or commercial distros of Eclipse
> now that have it all bundled together.
Yes, they both use a plug-in architecture. But, the difference is .... with NetBeans you don't have to go looking all over the internet for a plug-in to do J2EE development. NetBeans has it *one* download.
Re: Because moving from JBuilder to Eclipse was very smooth for me...
> Sorry, but your data is old. The Web Tools Platform> project is shipping a JSP editor --- along with
> many others --- in a couple of weeks. You can download
> the latest milestone build here:
>
> http://download.eclipse.org/webtools/downloads/drops/S
>
> -1.0M5-200506302219/
> /mike
> I don't think webtools will be out in a couple of
> weeks. From their web site:
> http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/development/planning/m
> ilestone_plan_1_0.html
> You can see that July 29th is the expected 0.7
> milestone build. Also there is no clear indication
> when to expect version 1.0
> 0.7 this month, 1.0 in December 2005. With stable
> milestones in between.
This actually completely illustrates my point. How long has a java ide needed a jsp editor? It's been 3 or 4 years at least. Why has eclipse, in that entire time, never had it's own dedicated editor? Because (I think) of the corporate agenda of IBM. If eclipse had a jsp editor, it would make people less likely to fell they need to spend of bunch of money on buying WSAD.
A jsp editor is pretty much mandatory for a very large number (although not all) of java developers. And it must be easier to write than SWT, or probably the host of refactorings that eclipse does, but yet it never actually happened...
And now that netbeans has it's own jsp editor, well, there's some promise of an actual jsp editor for eclipse coming out at the end of the year! What an unlikely coincidence!
Re: Because moving from JBuilder to Eclipse was very smooth for me...
*cough*I donīt think jsp is that important to many Java developers. If you work on a larger project you would still choose a "big" IDE - you cannot live without UML & other features on those (at least, that is my opinion). At that point the investment cost is rather minimal compared to other costs (pay e.g.).
You wouldnīt really choose the not-so-extendible-and-missing-most-refactorings-where-is-uml-Netbeans for such projects?
Well on the other hand: Horray, NB is getting Refactorings (maybe in Version 4.2 - rename doesnīt really count)???
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> Yes, they both use a plug-in architecture. But, the> difference is .... with NetBeans you don't have to go
> looking all over the internet for a plug-in to do
> J2EE development. NetBeans has it *one* download.
I agree that this is a major distinguishing feature between Eclipse and NetBeans. For some people this is a big advantage to NetBeans. For others it is a big advantage for Eclipse. It is a matter of personal preference and perceived need.
The fact of the matter is that Eclipse has way too many projects to even attempt to put them into a single download. I guess I will have to keep repeating this ad nausem . Eclipse is a community, not a Java IDE. Could you imagine debating whether Apache should have a single download package?
Re: Why I use Eclipse
I'm interested hearing more about your "unusual" project structure.I've helped many folks with very complex project structures integrate them into NetBeans. I would be glad to do the same for you.
As you know NetBeans has Refactor > Rename, it has error marking and editor hints and you can import a class with fix imports at any time with Alt+Shift+F.
The new *free* collaboration module / plug for NetBeans (http://collab.netbeans.org/index.html) is awesome. You can IM, view / share source with others on team and you can even give / take control of another developer's IDE (if you give permission of course). The feedback we're getting on this module / plug-in has been very, very positive. NetBeans would love to hear your's too.
If you'd like some help with integrating your project structure, drop me a note at: huntch-at-netbeans-dot-org
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> > Have to disagree with you there. 50 million> > downloads, multiple awards, etc...
> >
>
> 50 million *attempted* downloads across how many
> Eclipse release milestones?
>
>
> > > ... NetBeans, because I don't need any plugins
> for
> > > J2EE support
> >
> > NetBeans and Eclipse both use plug-ins for J2EE
> > support so it's just a difference of packaging.
> You
> > can get several free or commercial distros of
> Eclipse
> > now that have it all bundled together.
>
> Yes, they both use a plug-in architecture. But, the
> difference is .... with NetBeans you don't have to go
> looking all over the internet for a plug-in to do
> J2EE development. NetBeans has it *one* download.
Yeah I love it if you donīt have a choice. I like it especially when plugins are limited in supply. Where is my PHP plugin (Or: Prolog, C++, Velocity)?
Why are there so few plugins for NB after so many years? Of course some Eclipse plugins are lacking (itīs a problem OS in general has)& offering functionality which should be there in the first place. But really good plugins - like the essential SSH2 plugin or "call hierarchy" have merged into the core Eclipse distribution (and the whole process is quite open - itīs easy to propose a patch for a bug or ask for features).
Now why would I prefer the NB way of having everything in one place yet so little to choose from?
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> > Yes, they both use a plug-in architecture. But,> the
> > difference is .... with NetBeans you don't have to
> go
> > looking all over the internet for a plug-in to do
> > J2EE development. NetBeans has it *one* download.
>
> I agree that this is a major distinguishing feature
> between Eclipse and NetBeans. For some people this is
> a big advantage to NetBeans. For others it is a big
> advantage for Eclipse. It is a matter of personal
> preference and perceived need.
>
> The fact of the matter is that Eclipse has way too
> many projects to even attempt to put them into a
> single download. I guess I will have to keep
> repeating this ad nausem . Eclipse is a
> community, not a Java IDE. Could you imagine debating
> whether Apache should have a single download package?
Still I think the Eclipse homepage needs a mayor rework. Moreover I donīt understand the reasoning behind the completely different page structures of different Eclipse projects. Especially the WTP is cryptic at best (the whole Source code as well - ant all over the place, not very portable)
The new feature which lets you download dependent plugins is a mayor help.
Re: Because moving from JBuilder to Eclipse was very smooth for me...
> I donīt think jsp is that important to many Java> developers.
> You wouldnīt really choose the
> not-so-extendible-and-missing-most-refactorings-where-
> is-uml-Netbeans for such projects?
>
> Well on the other hand: Horray, NB is getting
> Refactorings (maybe in Version 4.2 - rename doesnīt
> really count)???
If you don't think jsp is that important to java developers, you're really out of touch. Go to monster.com, or dice.com, search for "java", and see how many of those position require jsp or J2EE. jsp is the single biggest use of java, at least if you want to get paid. I don't think Tomcat would be where it is if "most java developers" didn't need jsp.
I agree with you about Netbeans refactoring support (or lack thereof) though - I didn't even try Netbeans because it didn't have refactoring support when I was choosing an IDE.
Re: Because moving from JBuilder to Eclipse was very smooth for me...
> This actually completely illustrates my point. How> long has a java ide needed a jsp editor? It's been 3
> or 4 years at least. Why has eclipse, in that entire
> time, never had it's own dedicated editor? Because (I
> think) of the corporate agenda of IBM. If eclipse had
> a jsp editor, it would make people less likely to
> fell they need to spend of bunch of money on buying
> WSAD.
>
> A jsp editor is pretty much mandatory for a very
> large number (although not all) of java developers.
> And it must be easier to write than SWT, or probably
> the host of refactorings that eclipse does, but yet
> it never actually happened...
>
> And now that netbeans has it's own jsp editor, well,
> there's some promise of an actual jsp editor for
> eclipse coming out at the end of the year! What an
> unlikely coincidence! ;-)
I can definitely understand how you could jump to this conclusion. But I want to assure you this is not the case. There was a long delay in getting the Web Tools Platform project started, but it certainly wasn't because of any product or corporate agenda. The short version of the story is that the creation of WTP was wrapped up in the time it took to create the Eclipse Foundation and get it going. The project approval was made unanimously by the board in the first meeting after the Foundation had recruited its Executive Director. (That would be me
The good news is that today we have a WTP project that is coming along nicely and has the support of every major app server --- both open source and proprietary. The project is led by BEA, and there are resources contributing from BEA, IBM, JBoss, ObjectWeb (Jonas), Geronimo and (starting soon) Oracle.
I won't deny that WTP is late to the party. But it's here now, and I would encourage people to try it out and give the project their feedback.
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> Still I think the Eclipse homepage needs a mayor> rework. Moreover I donīt understand the reasoning
> behind the completely different page structures of
> different Eclipse projects. Especially the WTP is
> cryptic at best (the whole Source code as well - ant
> all over the place, not very portable)
I completely agree. Check out http://www.eclipse.org/phoenix/ which is our project to revamp the entire website.
Comments and feedback appreciated.
Re: Because moving from JBuilder to Eclipse was very smooth for me...
> > I donīt think jsp is that important to many Java> > developers.
>
>
> > You wouldnīt really choose the
> >
> not-so-extendible-and-missing-most-refactorings-where-
>
> > is-uml-Netbeans for such projects?
> >
> > Well on the other hand: Horray, NB is getting
> > Refactorings (maybe in Version 4.2 - rename
> doesnīt
> > really count)???
>
>
> If you don't think jsp is that important to java
> developers, you're really out of touch. Go to
> monster.com, or dice.com, search for "java", and see
> how many of those position require jsp or J2EE. jsp
> is the single biggest use of java, at least if you
> want to get paid. I don't think Tomcat would be where
> it is if "most java developers" didn't need jsp.
But thatīs exactly my point: Once you are in a position where you get paid as a Java developers, the costs of e.g. WSAD are miniscule compared to total project costs. As much as I like OS software, as much as I like Eclipse, I know there must be limits. Youīll never get UML support like Together4E into the OS realm - itīs too much know-how, and itīs quite specialized.
A good JSP editor is simply beyond what you can expect right now (and by the state of NBīs Java editor, itīs Jsp editor cannot be very satisfying).
> I agree with you about Netbeans refactoring support
> (or lack thereof) though - I didn't even try Netbeans
> because it didn't have refactoring support when I was
> choosing an IDE.
Re: Because moving from JBuilder to Eclipse was very smooth for me...
> This actually completely illustrates my point. How> long has a java ide needed a jsp editor? It's been 3
> or 4 years at least. Why has eclipse, in that entire
> time, never had it's own dedicated editor? Because (I
> think) of the corporate agenda of IBM. If eclipse had
> a jsp editor, it would make people less likely to
> fell they need to spend of bunch of money on buying
> WSAD.
Actually, this completely contradicts your point: 3-4 years ago, when IBM was running the show (and paid for it all, don't forget), their goal was to have a solid foundation for products like WSAD. These days, Eclipse is independent, so projects like WTP, that actually cannibalize WSAD, get more traction/support. Of course IBM is an influential member of Eclipse; they have every right to be. But the same is true for Linus Torvalds and the Linux kernel.
The problem is not whether people or companies have an agenda (think Richard Stallman
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> > Yes, they both use a plug-in architecture. But,> the
> > difference is .... with NetBeans you don't have to
> go
> > looking all over the internet for a plug-in to do
> > J2EE development. NetBeans has it *one* download.
>
> I agree that this is a major distinguishing feature
> between Eclipse and NetBeans. For some people this is
> a big advantage to NetBeans. For others it is a big
> advantage for Eclipse. It is a matter of personal
> preference and perceived need.
>
Matter of preference? For me it's a matter of productivity. Why spend hours downloading and configuring when you get everything you need in one NetBeans IDE download, one NetBeans install?
> The fact of the matter is that Eclipse has way too
> many projects to even attempt to put them into a
> single download. I guess I will have to keep
> repeating this ad nausem . Eclipse is a
> community, not a Java IDE. Could you imagine debating
> whether Apache should have a single download package?
Ok, add NetBeans Java IDE and Eclipse Java IDE to my original post.
I think you'll find lots of NetBeans projects at http://www.netbeans.org/community/projects/ and http://www.netbeans.org/community/projects/other.html. But, that doesn't prevent packaging of many projects into the NetBeans IDE.
Re: ...So Why is Eclipse so Popular?
> Yeah I love it if you donīt have a choice. I like it> especially when plugins are limited in supply. Where
> is my PHP plugin (Or: Prolog, C++, Velocity)?
>
I'd love to see someone contribute a PHP, Prolog, C++, Velocity plug-in. Would you like to volunterr
> Why are there so few plugins for NB after so many
> years? Of course some Eclipse plugins are lacking
> (itīs a problem OS in general has)& offering
> functionality which should be there in the first
> place. But really good plugins - like the essential
> SSH2 plugin or "call hierarchy" have merged into the
> core Eclipse distribution (and the whole process is
> quite open - itīs easy to propose a patch for a bug
> or ask for features).
>
> Now why would I prefer the NB way of having
> everything in one place yet so little to choose from?
If the NetBeans IDE can satisfy your needs, then it has its productivity advantages.
If NetBeans is lacking in something you'd like to see, then I'd ask that you provide feedback, like you've done yere