Popular @
Forum Controls
Spotlight Features
The Rich Engineering Heritage Behind Dependency Injection
Andrew McVeigh takes us on a tour of the rich heritage behind dependency injection, what it represents, and tells us why its here to stay.
NetBeans 6: Matisse Updates
NetBeans 6 delivers great updates to the Matisse GUI builder. Spend a few minutes with Roman Strobl and get an expert briefing on what's new and what has changed. (sponsored)
Introduction to Groovy Part 3
In this, the third and final installation of Andres' Introduction to Groovy series, you learn about how Groovy handles variable numbers of arguments, named parameters, currying, and more about Groovy operators. Including, some new operators.
Easier Custom Components with Swing Fuse
Swing Fuse (actually just Fuse), is a framework designed to make it easier to create your own custom desktop components. In this article, Daniel Spiewak shows you how to get started and provides sample source code you can download.
Benchmark Analysis: Guice vs Spring
Willam Louth shows how he uses JXInsight Probes to investigate probable performance issues with code bases that he is not familiar with. He also highlights possible pitfalls in creating a benchmark, as well as in the analysis of results.
Where are the Jobs Going?
URL: CNN.com
At 1:37 PM on Jun 21, 2005, Sebastian Ferreyra wrote:
Fresh Jobs for Developers Post a job opportunity
The articles states this is part of a trend, as coding projects are taken offshore in search of lower costs, tech workers in the United States are turning to other types of work, like project management, to satisfy their income expectations and the need for variety in the workplace.
While many believe the age of innovation in programming is coming to an end, Albert C. Gray, executive director of the National Society of Professional Engineers, says there is still room for growth in engineering, particularly in the biotech sector. But to me this looks like a completely different field of engineering, where programming skills just happen to come in handy.
Many questions come forth. Is it truly too late for a start-up to come up with the next big thing in a garage? Are programmers becoming like the car mechanics? Just doing maintenance work and applying little or no creativity? Should we start learning genetics?
Sebastian Ferreyra
19 replies so far (
Post your own)
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
I am no "industry leader". I am talking off the top of my head and I could very well be wrong, but here is what I see...I think the bottom line stands with what end-users value. If end-users don't care about where a piece of software is programmed, or at what rate, you end up with the results you see today. You can't leverage values your customers don't care about.
It stands to reason that as a result of lower-cost software development quality will likely suffer as well (although aparently not as much as people have predicted in the past).
I think end-users care about quality (but maybe not on the same level as programmers). Bottom line is, if you have a good business plan, coupled with a product that is superior to competitors from the point of view of end-users you shouldn't have much to worry about.
Another thing I see is end-users becoming disillusioned with the computer industry. It's getter harder and harder to convince people to trust your software with spyware floating around today.
My advice: focus on social issues such as "trust" more than technical issues such as programming (although the two are indirectly related). Understand your leverage and use it.
Gili
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
> Many questions come forth. Is it truly too late for a> start-up to come up with the next big thing in a
> garage? Are programmers becoming like the car
> mechanics? Just doing maintenance work and applying
> little or no creativity? Should we start learning
> genetics?
>
For the last few years, I've been saying that programmers are indeed becoming like car mechanics, in that programmers are a dime-a-dozen these days. In the 80's "programmer" was a highly respected profession, like "doctor", "lawyer", "engineer" (of whatever kind). This is no longer the case, as there are too many programmers for the number of jobs, and 90% of the jobs are tedious database manipulation tasks that require only training rather than any high level of skill or intelligence. It is almost indeed the case that you could train a monkey to do 90% of the "programming" tasks in business (I refer to the tasks that are performed by programmers using VB and yes, Java). Obviously, you couldn't really train a monkey to do those tasks, but you certainly don't need someone that's "smart" to do them.
Furthermore, car mechanics are actually more respected than programmers because a subset of the latter thinks that a programmer's highest virtue is to give away the fruits of one's labor for free. This inherently devalues the profession in the minds of others, which drives down the salaries even further (apart from the salaries being driven down by the availability of the free labor itself).
There are still programming tasks that require brilliance and there are still brilliant programmers to do them. And even among the non-brilliant programmers, some programmers are much better than others. But the overwhelming majority of programming tasks only require mediocre programmers, and programmers will be paid accordingly (if they are paid at all, if there is a free software solution available).
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
I am not an expert but the way I see today's industry trend is:1. Only low cost programming works are being sent to offshore.
2. Works like Design, Analysis etc are still very much within the premises of the company and being done by experts.
3. The sensitive works are not being outsourced as there is always a danger of source being leaked out no matter what the other company promises.
In the recent past due to heavy demand in IT industry many people got into it (to join the crowd and make quick money) by doing some small part time course. These are the major factors why the professionals who have a good IT degree today are facing problem.
But one thing is certain. If you are not passionate about programming then one day or another you will be sent out. But those who are passionate about programming will still be there and earn good money no matter what happens everywhere else.
Samir Kumar Mishra
http://semanticdb.blogspot.com
My Attitude in life is best described by my Blood Group.. B +ve.
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
There's another kind of job that is developing within companies. I call it the "ER-programmer". A company can offshore its software, but when critical software stops due to a bug, there is always a panic within management and they have to have an on-site programmer who is capable to analyse and correct the software asap. It's not possible to stop everything for a few days to contact a company in China to fix the problem.It's what I am doing since I started some 12 years ago in IT. And thanks to offshoring I'm one of the few programmers who can ask a salary increase on a regular basis. It's also one of the most exiting type of jobs. In the morning you enter the building and everything is fine. At 9:12 phone starts ringing to tell that the local agencies no longer have access to the clientdata. People start running around and you start up your IDE because you know in 2 minutes they'll be at your desk. Adrenaline starts pumping... Tell me what can be more exciting
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
First I want to say that innovation is NOT coming to an end.What happens it that too many of us are employed to do unattractive, boring stuff.
Take for example writing a book or creating a new song. You could possible say that all stories have already be written, and all songs invented yet. However people come up with new stories and song every time. That's the same for coding.
May be before people came to you with a problem and you as an engineer you coded something that solved the problem. To do this you needed technical and intellectual capabilities but not a whole lot of imagination (well may be to envision a way of solving the problem but that's it).
Today (and tomorrow) people won't get to you and ask you for a solution to a problem. I think that what has change (or is changing) is that now you have to invent the problem to solve. You have to be imaginative, you have to innovate and you have to create the solution.
This happen because people in general think that everything has been done, so you have no choice but to prove them that they are wrong
In programming, the limits are set by your imagination so innovation cannot come to an end.
In a way what I'm saying (and I've heard that a lot in business classes) is that many of us will become self employed.
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
Furthermore, car mechanics are actually more respected than programmers because a subset of the latter thinks that a programmer's highest virtue is to give away the fruits of one's labor for free. This inherently devalues the profession in the minds of others, which drives down the salaries even further (apart from the salaries being driven down by the availability of the free labor itself).Mmm .. that's an interesting line of thinking, but do you really think that a handful of loud open sourcers are responsible for devaluing the industry? I don't think so.
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
I absolutely disagree with the characterisation that in business, only poor programmers are necessary. I have worked with client's poor programmers before and let me tell you, they are a pain in the arse, and not capable of doing the job, just as much as they would be anywhere else. Sure it is not rock star programming but I would argue the class of problem is merely different, not less interesting or difficult.Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
Outsourcing work is nature's way of telling entrepreneurial programmers to go out and build better case tools. When you can specify your business in a language that can be translated into software then outsourcing won't be competitive anymore. One way of looking at outsourcing is that it is a stop gap until case tools mature. I never doubted that application software programming would diminish.Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
Programming jobs are no different than any other type of manufacturing except in the ease of shipping. As long as new tools make programming easier, it will take less skill to do it. The real benefit comes from problem solving, and yeah, maybe it takes a computer to do it. When my company's customers ask for me by name, it isn't because I am a kick ass programmer. It is because I understand their business pain and can help them get it straightened out. They don't notice that my code is clean, efficient, quick, and easy to maintain. They notice when it is not.So lets keep sending the low skill jobs over seas. If I wanted a high paid job for pushing buttons, I would join a union and complain until they shut down the factory. I like having to learn new things to stay valuable. I like taking on new challenges.
OpenSource is not devaluating a developers work
I strongly disagree with this point of view:> Furthermore, car mechanics are actually more
> respected than programmers because a subset of the
> latter thinks that a programmer's highest virtue is
> to give away the fruits of one's labor for free.
> This inherently devalues the profession in the minds
> s of others, which drives down the salaries even
> further (apart from the salaries being driven down by
> the availability of the free labor itself).
To believe that respect is only related to a price is not the human nature. It's a very narrow minded materialistic point of view. Think of everything free you are enyoying and respecting: god, the earth, your parents, help given by a friend, etc. etc.
What I respect the most is usally freely available, maybe especially because of the fact they are not a subject of profit driven interrests. I'm so happy that still the greatest things of all are free and that for instance I don't have to pay license fees for the alphabet.
Most developers I know honor the effort of open source products very much as it is enriching their tool chain.
Anyway, IMHO most of the IT projects could not be satisfied with open source products out of the box, but of course with solutions based on open source products or tools, wisely used by smart developers.
/phunkhy
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
Well software certainly isn't dead.Outsourcing is a temporary stopgap until the end-user can drag and drop "a solution".
That just isn't happening yet.
If you look carefully, offshore programmers aren't all that cheap compared to "local" talent - and as the living standards in India/China/Russia improve those costs are going to go higher.
There's also plenty of scope for innovative s/w from the garage ... but I can't tell you about those
One thing I do know ... there are whole new classes of devices appearing - which need NEW solutions to the apps they run - and with ever increasing consumer usage of computing devices the days of the PC style interface surely are numbered.
Re: OpenSource is not devaluating a developers work
> What I respect the most is usally freely available,> maybe especially because of the fact they are not a
> subject of profit driven interrests. I'm so happy
> that still the greatest things of all are free and
> that for instance I don't have to pay license fees
> for the alphabet.
>
> Anyway, IMHO most of the IT projects could not be
> satisfied with open source products out of the box,
> but of course with solutions based on open source
> products or tools, wisely used by smart developers.
Why do some people see profit as evil? There is nothing wrong with making a profit. In fact without it, how do you eat? It's tough to enjoy family, earth, and rainbows when your belly is growling. And why is code different than other manufactured products, like cars? No one can expect Toyota to give cars away. Or even car designs. (Seen an open source design for the Synergy drive?)
I have found very few open source packages that satify any requirements out of the box beyond tools for other coders. Since I work in manufacturing, I will give some examples of huge holes. If you got options here, let me know.
Manufacturing Execution System
Product Lifecycle Management
FDA validated Corrective Action / Preventative Action
Re: Where are the Jobs Going?
Well having been in the "program development industry" for the last 24 years (yes 1981). I have made a living doing Basic/Pascal/C/C++ and for the last 10 years Java. It has been a world of change. As for fewer jobs etc. Yes there are fewer jobs, not because of a lack of movement, just better tools. When I started out, it took 7 or 8 people with basic debuggers and no IDE's to make a decent program. In C it took even more. C was a lousy application language (good OS language though). Today, I can produce more code in a day than I could in a couple of weeks and it is better code. One thing I have noticed is the maturity of the market and the overwhelming shrinking of the players in the market. Microsoft has done more damage in their attempts to be the dominant player. Whole realms of opportunities have been destroyed by their tactics and further hindered by their political involvement with Rights Management/Patents. There is a lot of opportunity out there, unfortunately it is locked away in IP portfolios and will never see the light of day because of the lack of competition in the software markets. Just as an example: When I started in 1981 the PC makers were Apple, Compaq, Osborne, Kaypro, IBM, TRS (Radio Shack). Today all you have is the PC (IBM heritage) and Apple. The mid-range market was DEC, DG, HP, IBM, Sun, Bull, Unisys, AT&T, Prime, Fujitsu, NCR, SGI and about 10 others that had market share. Today you have HP, SUN, and IBM. In the mainframe market you had IBM, Fujitsu, Cray, Bull, Unisys, Thinking Machines and about 5 others. Today you have Sun, IBM, and HP. These handful of companies have tied up the IP for the future. When I started MS had just rolled out Dos 2.0. There were thousands of software companies that were started daily in dorm rooms and garages. Today they are either MS controlled/driven or not. Today the software IP is tied up in MS,Sun,IBM. So when you have the software patenting being done and the IP being argued in court... There is no way startups can get started....Re: OpenSource is not devaluating a developers work
I don't mind people making a profit. It is the 80% profit on a sale that I mind. MS in their latest SEC 10K filing showed an 82% profit margin. To give you an example... The worlds largest company (Wal-Mart) lives on a %12 margin...Just remember, you can make a comfortable living or you can squeeze your customers like the mafia if you have a monopoly!