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Sometimes I think I should just go down to the corner store and apply for a job as a cash register clerk. Matt and I sat down to get started working yesterday after the holiday vacation and immediately discovered that we had a huge problem on our hands - a grim consequence of an earlier problem caused by forum spammers who had basically attacked our system just before Christmas. I'm so angry now that I would most likely commit a violent crime if I could get my hands on these spammers, and I'm not a violent person by nature.
It started sometime around mid-December, when a group of fairly sophisticated spammers began probing our forum system. We have always provided limited areas where unregistered “guests” could post questions and comments, and this was apparently an invitation for these spammers to post over 50,000 new forum messages pointing to every type of internet scam. Gambling, pills, lose weight, gain length, you name it - it was all there! Not only had they posted tons of garbage into the Javalobby forums, but they had also managed a cool trick of using attachments to automatically redirect visitors to various porn sites. It was a veritable buffet of everything you don't want on your legitimate website.
The day after Christmas Mike and I noticed unusually high load on one of our main servers, which tipped us off that something was amiss. After all, how could there be unusually high traffic on the day after one of the biggest holidays of the year? There was no significant traffic from any particular IP address, which is usually the first sign of someone up to no good. Monitoring our database activity revealed that a large number of new messages were being created, but they were from IP addresses all over the map. Further investigation pinpointed the forums that allowed anonymous posting, and we spent the next few hours purging thousands and thousands of useless spam messages from those areas of our system. We closed the door on postings from unregistered guests, and we were relieved to see the server load parameters fall back down into normal ranges.
That was not the end of it, however. A site like Javalobby is constantly being spidered by the major search engines, so they were quick to pick up all of these new trash messages. It had been aggravating to spend holiday time cleaning up the unwanted mess left by our guests, but the real problem didn't surface until we started going through our normal morning routine yesterday, having just returned to work from our holiday break. We generally take a look at a variety of statistics in the morning before proceeding into whatever development work we're doing. Having been out of the office for almost two weeks, we had a lot of stats to look at. It took no time to see that something was wrong - traffic was down. A little more investigation revealed the problem.
We had completely disappeared from Google's main index! If you run a website, then you know how serious a problem this is. On any given day over 10,000 visitors arrive at Javalobby as a result of Google searches, and suddenly they stopped coming! We had apparently been grouped together with the spammer's viagra and casino sites, and poof! Suddenly we no longer existed in the eyes of Google, the world's largest search engine. Countless thousands of well-ranked pages gone in a blink. Perhaps you now understand why I would commit a violent crime if I caught those forum spammers? In essence, they have wiped out strategic positioning that we took years to build.
We are, of course, doing everything we can to address the problem, but there's not very much you can do. Google doesn't send you an email to say there is a problem, and there's nowhere you can turn for definitive answers about exactly what they have found fault with. This isn't like some type of justice system where you get to face your accuser and defend yourself. Instead, you are tried and convicted without knowing a problem even exists, and then you learn about it after you are summarily executed. At that point you're left to turn, ironically, to the Google search engine to start looking for steps you can take to recover. In the immortal words of Chuck D, "It all adds up to a f**king situation."
Allan has said for years that the problem of the Microsoft monopoly would pale in comparison to the coming Google problem. Allan has an uncanny way of seeing where the real issues are. Let's not get caught up in a discussion of whether Google is a monopoly, legally or practically. I will say, however, that there's a tremendous amount of power concentrated in the proprietary Google databases. If you're not in Google, then you don't really exist on the web.
Anyway, I'm off to the corner store to fill out my job application. So long, and thanks for all the fish. I love you guys.
And by the way - you aren't kidding! I just did some searches for various things I usually expect to return articles I am familiar with (or have written) from Javalobby, and we are missing.
A few for the articles I wrote are 'jgoodies data binding', 'hibernate second level cache' and 'wicket' or 'wicket little bit'.
On the lighter side, in the case of the informational articles, DZone hits are starting to show up
This must happen to others too. My guess is that Google lowers the rank of all forum websites that have lots of frivolous links, but that the effect isn't permanent. Once your site is cleaned of the spammers' garbage, I hope your site rises again in Google rank within a week or two. I hope... for your sake and ours.
If you do a search for "site:javalobby.org" it brings back a whole bunch of bizarre RSS links we didn't even know google was grabbing. These are all "Supplemental Results" which means they are not being delivered from Google's primary index.
We did manage to find a few links that are still there, but they are few and far between. It's anybody's guess what the rhyme or reason to Google's process.
I understand your anger Rick, these as*h**** waited for Christmas vacation to take over the forums. When they knew it would take longer to be detected... Sneaky bastards.
Note: You might be able to explain the situation to Josh Blosh, Java Chief Technologist at Google. He might be able to do something...
Jean-Marie Dautelle - Marlboro, MA
-- Javolution: Everything should be made as simple as possible...
-- JScience: But not simpler!
I had my forums spammed twice, but I didn't notice any change in google rankings/traffic as an immediate result of that (except increased traffic for the spam keywords).
The good thing to say about Google is that once I removed the spam messages (and configured my website to return a 403 code for them) Google was the first to pick it up and remove the pages from its index. Yahoo and MSN had ~2 weeks delay before I stopped getting traffic on spam keywords and pages were removed from their cache.
However Google ranking is something that constantly puzzles me. At one moment my ranking for "RMI Java" keywords was around ~20 and then all of the sudden it dropped to ~100. (I hope it is not a late side effect of the spammng). There is just no way to predict how it changes, whether it changes because something you've done to your website or you have been spammed.
And there is nobody to talk to...
As to the (spam) attacks - I'm constantly seeing attacks in my logs. Most of them are standard and known phpBB exploits but there are some log entries that I'm sure that they come from attackers, but they're still a mistery to me.
Believe me, I feel your pain. I run a phpBB based forum, http://autoimmuneforum.org and I have had my share of attacks. They are quite frustrating to deal with... find the hole, plug the hole, clean up the database, etc. Luckily, I was able to clean up all the junk posts before google came along to index.
Google should have a way of reverting back to an old index of a person's web site. That way, if something like this happens again, you could call them up or submit an online form and have them revert back to an index of a given date.
This[1] blog entry describes how Google handles hacked sites and also talks about the webmaster console that can be used to check if a site has been penalised. Even though the Javalobby forums weren't exactly hacked, all the spam links probably had a similar effect.
A few years ago I've had a client once, that suddenly got removed from Google. He had hired a "search engine optimization" company, and did some things that Google apparently didn't like.
The "organic" listings were removed, but the paid advertising links were ok, because he was a paying customer.
He was a pay-per-click customer that paid out upwards to $5000 (five thousand dollars) per month. He wrote a letter to Google, and told them he thought he was treated unfairly, and threatened to stop doing business with Google and maximize on Yahoo instead.
Google did restore his ranking.
I've since told people to never do business with any "search engine optimization" companies.
My suggestion to Google is to build in a mechanism that will tolerate a website temporarily being damaged by terrorists. eg. Just because France might suffer a terrorist attack, doesn't mean we should stop doing business with France, right?
We can't all become afraid of the internet terrorists, just because Google might punish you, it just isn't right.
If there was anything I could do, I would. I protect my websites with some iptables rules that makes it ignore ip addresses that behave "funny" temporarily, if that's any help to you... it keeps my log files from being flooded by scripting-kiddie ssh password dictionary attacks for instance...
Dear Rick,
If Google is so important to the wellbeing of your site - you may want to treat it like you would treat your largest customer. Pay a lot of attention to how it works, be all over the Google webmaster tools, subscribe to the Matt Cutts blog (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/), which has had quite a number of entries and explanations about the Google exclusion and re-inclusion processes work, using nofollow tags for preventing links in comments to be considered in Google's index etc.
While I can understand your justified anger about being victimized by a crime, you don't have to be as helpless as you may feel right now.
And I'm not a pro-google shill - actually I think Google is building and hoarding the most dangerous privacy busting technology our planet has ever witnessed, which will be used for all kinds of evil no matter how much the lady protesteth -- but that's another issue for another day.
It's just that if your business model is so dependent on something, you will need to baby that something whether you like it or not or whether it's fair or not.
well Rick, see it in a different light... these spammers' wrong-doing just goes to prove that you and the guys at JavaLobby has done an excellent job to make this site one of the must-visit sites for all things Java!
Thanks for your attention to this, Matt. I'm really grateful to you and to Javalobby's friends at Google who brought this to your attention. You're not a minute too soon, either. I went to the corner store and filled out an application, but they turned me away saying something about being "overqualified." Who are they kidding? I'm not overqualified for anything!
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
At 3:17 PM on Jan 3, 2007, Rick Ross wrote:
Fresh Jobs for Developers Post a job opportunity
It started sometime around mid-December, when a group of fairly sophisticated spammers began probing our forum system. We have always provided limited areas where unregistered “guests” could post questions and comments, and this was apparently an invitation for these spammers to post over 50,000 new forum messages pointing to every type of internet scam. Gambling, pills, lose weight, gain length, you name it - it was all there! Not only had they posted tons of garbage into the Javalobby forums, but they had also managed a cool trick of using attachments to automatically redirect visitors to various porn sites. It was a veritable buffet of everything you don't want on your legitimate website.
That was not the end of it, however. A site like Javalobby is constantly being spidered by the major search engines, so they were quick to pick up all of these new trash messages. It had been aggravating to spend holiday time cleaning up the unwanted mess left by our guests, but the real problem didn't surface until we started going through our normal morning routine yesterday, having just returned to work from our holiday break. We generally take a look at a variety of statistics in the morning before proceeding into whatever development work we're doing. Having been out of the office for almost two weeks, we had a lot of stats to look at. It took no time to see that something was wrong - traffic was down. A little more investigation revealed the problem.
We had completely disappeared from Google's main index! If you run a website, then you know how serious a problem this is. On any given day over 10,000 visitors arrive at Javalobby as a result of Google searches, and suddenly they stopped coming! We had apparently been grouped together with the spammer's viagra and casino sites, and poof! Suddenly we no longer existed in the eyes of Google, the world's largest search engine. Countless thousands of well-ranked pages gone in a blink. Perhaps you now understand why I would commit a violent crime if I caught those forum spammers? In essence, they have wiped out strategic positioning that we took years to build.
We are, of course, doing everything we can to address the problem, but there's not very much you can do. Google doesn't send you an email to say there is a problem, and there's nowhere you can turn for definitive answers about exactly what they have found fault with. This isn't like some type of justice system where you get to face your accuser and defend yourself. Instead, you are tried and convicted without knowing a problem even exists, and then you learn about it after you are summarily executed. At that point you're left to turn, ironically, to the Google search engine to start looking for steps you can take to recover. In the immortal words of Chuck D, "It all adds up to a f**king situation."
Allan has said for years that the problem of the Microsoft monopoly would pale in comparison to the coming Google problem. Allan has an uncanny way of seeing where the real issues are. Let's not get caught up in a discussion of whether Google is a monopoly, legally or practically. I will say, however, that there's a tremendous amount of power concentrated in the proprietary Google databases. If you're not in Google, then you don't really exist on the web.
Anyway, I'm off to the corner store to fill out my job application. So long, and thanks for all the fish. I love you guys.
Rick
54 replies so far (
Post your own)
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Man, that sucks! I can only hope that for all our sakes Google will white-list as fast as it black-lists.Here is hoping!
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
And by the way - you aren't kidding! I just did some searches for various things I usually expect to return articles I am familiar with (or have written) from Javalobby, and we are missing.A few for the articles I wrote are 'jgoodies data binding', 'hibernate second level cache' and 'wicket' or 'wicket little bit'.
On the lighter side, in the case of the informational articles, DZone hits are starting to show up
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
This must happen to others too. My guess is that Google lowers the rank of all forum websites that have lots of frivolous links, but that the effect isn't permanent. Once your site is cleaned of the spammers' garbage, I hope your site rises again in Google rank within a week or two. I hope... for your sake and ours.Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
If you do a search for "site:javalobby.org" it brings back a whole bunch of bizarre RSS links we didn't even know google was grabbing. These are all "Supplemental Results" which means they are not being delivered from Google's primary index.We did manage to find a few links that are still there, but they are few and far between. It's anybody's guess what the rhyme or reason to Google's process.
bestuff.com - the best stuff in the world
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
I understand your anger Rick, these as*h**** waited for Christmas vacation to take over the forums. When they knew it would take longer to be detected... Sneaky bastards.Note: You might be able to explain the situation to Josh Blosh, Java Chief Technologist at Google. He might be able to do something...
-- Javolution: Everything should be made as simple as possible... -- JScience: But not simpler!
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
I had my forums spammed twice, but I didn't notice any change in google rankings/traffic as an immediate result of that (except increased traffic for the spam keywords).The good thing to say about Google is that once I removed the spam messages (and configured my website to return a 403 code for them) Google was the first to pick it up and remove the pages from its index. Yahoo and MSN had ~2 weeks delay before I stopped getting traffic on spam keywords and pages were removed from their cache.
However Google ranking is something that constantly puzzles me. At one moment my ranking for "RMI Java" keywords was around ~20 and then all of the sudden it dropped to ~100. (I hope it is not a late side effect of the spammng). There is just no way to predict how it changes, whether it changes because something you've done to your website or you have been spammed.
And there is nobody to talk to...
As to the (spam) attacks - I'm constantly seeing attacks in my logs. Most of them are standard and known phpBB exploits but there are some log entries that I'm sure that they come from attackers, but they're still a mistery to me.
Get the RMI Plugin for Eclipse
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Believe me, I feel your pain. I run a phpBB based forum, http://autoimmuneforum.org and I have had my share of attacks. They are quite frustrating to deal with... find the hole, plug the hole, clean up the database, etc. Luckily, I was able to clean up all the junk posts before google came along to index.Google should have a way of reverting back to an old index of a person's web site. That way, if something like this happens again, you could call them up or submit an online form and have them revert back to an index of a given date.
Hang in there man!
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
This[1] blog entry describes how Google handles hacked sites and also talks about the webmaster console that can be used to check if a site has been penalised. Even though the Javalobby forums weren't exactly hacked, all the spam links probably had a similar effect.Hope it helps.
Regards,
Ismael
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/how-google-handles-hacked-sites/
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
A few years ago I've had a client once, that suddenly got removed from Google. He had hired a "search engine optimization" company, and did some things that Google apparently didn't like.The "organic" listings were removed, but the paid advertising links were ok, because he was a paying customer.
He was a pay-per-click customer that paid out upwards to $5000 (five thousand dollars) per month. He wrote a letter to Google, and told them he thought he was treated unfairly, and threatened to stop doing business with Google and maximize on Yahoo instead.
Google did restore his ranking.
I've since told people to never do business with any "search engine optimization" companies.
My suggestion to Google is to build in a mechanism that will tolerate a website temporarily being damaged by terrorists. eg. Just because France might suffer a terrorist attack, doesn't mean we should stop doing business with France, right?
We can't all become afraid of the internet terrorists, just because Google might punish you, it just isn't right.
If there was anything I could do, I would. I protect my websites with some iptables rules that makes it ignore ip addresses that behave "funny" temporarily, if that's any help to you... it keeps my log files from being flooded by scripting-kiddie ssh password dictionary attacks for instance...
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Dear Rick,If Google is so important to the wellbeing of your site - you may want to treat it like you would treat your largest customer. Pay a lot of attention to how it works, be all over the Google webmaster tools, subscribe to the Matt Cutts blog (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/), which has had quite a number of entries and explanations about the Google exclusion and re-inclusion processes work, using nofollow tags for preventing links in comments to be considered in Google's index etc.
While I can understand your justified anger about being victimized by a crime, you don't have to be as helpless as you may feel right now.
And I'm not a pro-google shill - actually I think Google is building and hoarding the most dangerous privacy busting technology our planet has ever witnessed, which will be used for all kinds of evil no matter how much the lady protesteth -- but that's another issue for another day.
It's just that if your business model is so dependent on something, you will need to baby that something whether you like it or not or whether it's fair or not.
So you may want to head over to the Matt Cutts blog and do some fast track reading on the exclusion / reinclusion issues:
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/reinclusion-request-howto/
Good luck!
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Hi Rick, this is Matt Cutts (I'm an engineer at Google). It didn't take long at all for someone to alert me to this.I agree with your assessment that having that tens of thousands of spammy forum messages could have caused this issue.
I'll ask someone to check into this right now.
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
well Rick, see it in a different light... these spammers' wrong-doing just goes to prove that you and the guys at JavaLobby has done an excellent job to make this site one of the must-visit sites for all things Java!Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Thanks for your attention to this, Matt. I'm really grateful to you and to Javalobby's friends at Google who brought this to your attention. You're not a minute too soon, either. I went to the corner store and filled out an application, but they turned me away saying something about being "overqualified." Who are they kidding? I'm not overqualified for anything!Best,
Rick
bestuff.com - the best stuff in the world
Re: So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Actually, it was Flavor Flav who said "It all adds up to a f**king situation."A good Chuck D quote to describe Google in this situation could be: "it occurred to me, the suckas had authority."