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OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
At 3:20 PM on Apr 20, 2007, iwein wrote:
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Since I found no questions about that I decided to add one. Now all the comments about the question complain that it's not about java. You could argue "read tf objectives", but we are Java BlackBelt right? Should the objectives be changed?
Thanks for your thoughts.
9 replies so far (
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Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
Briefly: You're right - they're notThis is JAVABlackBelt due to the fact that JavaProgrammersWhoKnowOOConceptsBeacuseThisIsImportantBlackBelt would sound bit silly
Some frustrated users complain even about UML in the OO Basic stating that this kind of knowledge doesn't improve their proficiency in Java Programming. No comment on that
I understand that we promote the higher IT culture here, not the I-have-read-delphi-tutorial-in-3-days-so-i-am-programmer approach so if anybody tell me that this kind of questions should not be here I just kindly explain him/her that he/she should refer to the objectives.
I believe that the fact that every serious Java programmer should know UML/OO is an axiom and that we shouldn't discuss it or convince anybody that it is right.
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
What HenryK said++If people want to discuss it, direct them to JavaBlackBelt. We are happy to hear feedback on the objectives. I'd love to hear a strong argument for why UML shouldn't be tested. And the reason I'd love to hear it is because I don't think there is one.
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
I'd love to hear a strong argument for why UML shouldn't be tested. And the reason I'd love to hear it is because I don't think there is one.Well about UML I think you'll get less of an argument as it is clearly a language that a Java programmer will need to understand in certain contexts in his daily work.
I am all for having exams about different topics on JavaBlackBelt. I'm very happy to see a ruby exam for example. Maybe we should also have Smalltalk, Perl, BNF? On the other hand I'm very happy that these exams are not on the belt track.
Specifically, the original post is about the diamond problem. The reason that it was decided to not implement multiple inheritance in Java is so that programmers wouldn't have to worry about the problems associated with it. I think this has worked. I have never worried about this problem after I started my Java career (until I started making that question).
I can very well understand the frustration of a proficient Java programmer if he fails his green belt exam due to a question that has absolutely nothing to do with Java.
So the argument is: "There is no reason a Java programmer would benefit from knowing about the diamond problem in the context of his work. Therefore this knowledge should not be tested in the context of JavaBlackBelt."
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
All right, lets assume that you're on the programmers party (I know, it sounds scary :P) and you're drinking beer with the C++ people. During this interesting conversation sb states that Java sucks because it doesn't provide multi-inheritance, while their beloved C++ does. What would you response?a) "C++ sucks, in your face..." and start a fight in the bar.
b) Describe the diamond problem and watch how they're holding theirs tongues with the deepest respect :P
In conclusion - the is also the part of the higher Java culture. Why Java provides interfaces (not only abstracts)? Why Java doesn't allow you to cast ClassA to ClassB if they are not inheritance-related even though size of the objects are equal? And finally why Java does not provide the evil pointers? The issues above aren't necessary in order to program Java but I prefer to understand them than not to.
I'm also the great fan of the non-Java exams. I would be very happy for example if sb create separated Networking exams. For example separated exams for both lower (Ethernet 802.3 IEEE exam, Wireless 802.11 exam) and higher (HTTP, SFTP, SMTP) OSI layers. Of course such exams could create separated sub-track, for example Networking track. However I'd love it. And of course, you don't have to understand in details how CSMA/CD works in order to use java.net package, but once again, imagine the programmers party... :P
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
> Specifically, the original post is about the diamond> problem.
Oh. I should have read the whole thread. Sorry.
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
I had answered to one of comments in the question some later before I saw this thread. And my point of view is that such things should be there. This exam is not only of Java. And this is can be find in the main page of exam. If someone doesn't want to read it's his/her problem. Thee could propose changes in forum or in comments to the exam's category.But I believe, you couldn't be a good Java developer (not programmer) without knowing OO basics.
Evgeniy.
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
=Off topic=Programmers party... interesting concept
Btw, I would opt for option a) any day. It's a C++ programmer, a geek! I'll kick his ass with my left foot.
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
*** Off-topic tooI'd go for a) I don't think any C++ lover would want to hear about the diamond problem with his brain drowned in beer
Re: OO exam contains non Java objectives. Should this be improved?
I am favour of keeping the objectives as is. This is not unrelated to java, since it highlights the fact about why java does not allow multiple inheritance of classes. Thanks for a good question in the OO category.